The Tony Stephan Show · Episode #006
How These New Real Estate Investors Bought 23 Multifamily Units In 1 Year
Hugo and Joe have been friends for 15 to 20 years. Hugo grew up in Los Angeles, lives in Rancho Cucamonga and works a W2 job at the Department of Water and Power. He found Tony on Instagram, attended a mastermind and bought a duplex, then traded it for a 12 unit. Joe spent 15 years in law enforcement, much of it as a gang investigator, and left that career. He has four kids.
They closed on a 12 unit in Metro Detroit on April 15th. A month later they were under contract on an 11 unit. Hugo kept calling the broker after the property went on and off the market, and the seller agreed to finance it at 5.5%. They offered over the asking price for those terms. Five units rent at $550 and six at $750.
Recorded at Tony and Andrea's 42 unit after a half day session on operations, they talk about why they chose multifamily over waiting for a pension, the sacrifices they made, managing properties they have not seen from California, and their goal of 1,000 units. Tony explains why focusing on terms beats focusing on price and why 48 units is the point where an on site manager changes the game.
Watch the full episode · Watch on YouTube
Key takeaways
- Buying the deal is the start. The money is made in operations: fees, systems and the details that raise NOI.
- Seller financing is a trade off. You may pay the seller's price, but you get terms and speed a bank will not give you.
- The number one thing that kills deals for new investors is focusing on price instead of what the property can be worth.
- Getting started took sacrifice: living below their means, no car payments, a HELOC and selling a truck to pay off debt.
- Out of state management runs on systems. Notices, leases and requests all happen through the software, not in person.
- Invest in coaching. Profiting from someone else's mistakes is cheaper than making them yourself.
Guest: Hugo and Joe
Hugo and Joe are friends from Los Angeles and clients of Tony Stephan's coaching program and the Stephan Group brokerage. Hugo works a W2 job at the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power and started with a duplex in Metro Detroit. Joe spent 15 years in law enforcement before going all in on real estate. Together they own a 12 unit and had an 11 unit under contract with seller financing when this was recorded.
Chapters
- 0:00 Intro
- 1:02 Why Operations Matter
- 1:40 Hugo and Joe's Journey
- 3:50 Why Multifamily
- 6:07 Scaling From 12 to 23 Units
- 7:15 Confidence and Coaching
- 8:39 The Seller Financing Deal
- 10:25 Managing From Out of State
- 11:26 Future Goals
- 12:36 Advice for New Investors
FAQ
How did Hugo and Joe get to 23 units so fast?
Hugo started with a duplex, sold it and bought a 12 unit that closed on April 15th. About a month later they were under contract on an 11 unit. Their goal is 1,000 units, and they say they did not want to treat real estate as a side income.
How did they get seller financing on the 11 unit?
Hugo kept calling the broker after the property went on and off the market; the broker said there were about 30 offers. On one call the broker mentioned the seller would entertain seller financing. They offered over the asking price and got a 5.5% rate.
Why does Tony say to focus on terms instead of price?
He says the price is the least important thing for new investors. What matters is what the property is worth in five years and the terms you get. Seller financing can mean paying the seller's number in exchange for a rate far below bank financing.
How do they manage properties in Michigan from California?
Through systems and their team. Hugo says notices, lease violations and requests are all handled through property management software. Tony adds that not living near the property can help, because owners are not tempted to go talk to residents in person.
Why did Hugo and Joe choose multifamily over a pension or 401k?
Hugo saw coworkers retire from physical jobs unable to enjoy the life they waited for. Joe wanted more for his four kids after 15 years in law enforcement. Tony adds that our bodies are depreciating assets, so earned income should go into an asset that appreciates.
23 Multifamily Units in Their First Year: Hugo and Joe
Back on the channel
Hugo first appeared on Tony's channel with his 12 unit. This time he brings his friend and partner Joe, and they record at Tony and Andrea's 42 unit in Michigan, which doubles as their podcast studio. They have just finished a half day session on operations. "It's sexy to buy a deal," Tony says, "but money is made in the operations." Hugo's takeaway is simple: implement the fees and do not skip a beat, because that is what raises NOI.
Who they are
Hugo grew up in Los Angeles and now lives in Rancho Cucamonga. He works a W2 job at the Department of Water and Power. He found Tony on Instagram, went to a mastermind in Chino, bought a duplex and then traded up. He says he read Tony's book three or four times.
Joe spent 15 years in law enforcement, starting in his early twenties, much of it working gang cases on a task force. After a dangerous incident on the job, and with four kids at home, he ended that career. He and Hugo have known each other for 15 to 20 years. When Hugo told him about real estate, Joe says his style is to rip the bandage off, so he went all in.
Why multifamily
Hugo remembers a line from one of Tony's videos: why wait until you are 65 to enjoy your life? At his job, he sees people retire with bad backs, and one coworker told him his dream of snowboarding after retirement was gone. Tony adds that our bodies are depreciating assets, so the goal is to maximize earned income and put it into an asset that appreciates.
The path took sacrifice. Hugo committed to two or three years below his means, no car payments, a HELOC on his house and selling his truck to pay off debt. "There's sacrifice to it," Tony says, and it is what most people skip when they say they are too busy.
From 12 to 23
They closed the 12 unit on April 15th. A month later they were under contract on 11 more. "We didn't want to treat this like a side business," Joe says. Their goal is 1,000 units.
The 11 unit went on the market, off, and back on. Hugo kept calling the broker, who said there were about 30 offers. On one call the broker mentioned the seller would consider financing it himself. They offered over the asking price in exchange for a 5.5% rate. Five units rent at $550 and six at $750, well below what the market pays.
Tony explains the trade off. With seller financing you might pay the seller's price, but you get terms a bank will not give you. "Number one thing that kills a deal for most new investors is they focus on the price," he says. What matters is what the property will be worth in five years.
Managing from California
Hugo has not seen the 12 unit in person. "It makes me money. I don't care what it looks like," he says. Joe says he will pay for knowledge to get where he is going faster. During the session, Andrea walked them through notices and lease violations, all handled through software. Tony notes it can even help not to live nearby, because owners are not tempted to go talk to residents.
What comes next
Tony lays out the Monopoly plan: raise NOI, refinance, and eventually sell and 1031 exchange into something bigger. At about 48 units, a property can pay for an on site manager, and then the owner deals with the manager instead of the problems.
Their advice to W2 workers who want this but are afraid: change your mindset, invest in coaching, go all in and keep going. "There's going to be hiccups, mistakes, but that's how we learn," Hugo says.
Transcript
0:00 How does a new real estate investor close 23 units of multifamily real estate in their first year and half of it is on seller financing rate and terms that will blow you out of the water. That's what we're talking about today. What's going on everyone? Tony Stephan here with Andrea Stephan. If you're new to the channel, we own 258 units of multifamily real estate and we share our journey and the journey of our clients to help you get in the game of multifamily. And today we have a real treat bringing Hugo back to the channel. So, we're here in Michigan. We're at our 42 unit apartment, which is like our HQ in our podcast studio. Now, Hugo and Joe from California. They just bought 12 units on April 15th. At the time of filming this, it's May. They are under contract on another 11 units. And brokered the deal, seller finance, 5.5% rate.
0:46 Like I always say, why don't you give me some seller finance? Hugo owned a duplex. He sold the duplex, bought the 12 unit, have 23 units in less than a year. And that's what we're talking about here because we know that Hugo and Joe have a very inspirational story and we want them to share their story to help you guys get in the game. So, welcome you guys. Thank you. So, you guys are coaching clients and clients of Stephan Group Brokerage. We were wrapping up a little bit of a halfday session talking all about operations. I would just love if you guys could share with the audience like what was a big takeaway from operations talk today? Cuz like we always say, it's sexy to buy a deal, but money is made in the operations. Just implementing the fees, making sure that we're on everything and we don't skip a beat because we need to understand that it's really important and that's going to boost our NOI and that's what we want. NOI is everything like we really mapped out how you guys are going to go from 12 and 11 units to over a 100red units with the bur strategy.
1:36 Buy it right, fix it up, rent it out, refinance it, and repeat it. Before we even get to all that, like who are you guys? Where you guys aren't from Michigan, man. You guys have a powerful story. Who are you guys and where you from? I'm Hugo Robas. Grew up in LA. Lived there for well all my life and then now I'm in Rach Kamonga. I'm a W2 worker. I work for LWP out in LA which is Department of Water and Power. I found you through Instagram and then obviously I attended a first mastermind event. My first mastermind event with Pedros and his headquarters in Chino. That's where I got you as a coach and from there just it took off. Got my first duplex. What got me really inspired was your book. I read it. I'm not lying to you three to four times. I just want people to know that you don't have to have money. Wherever you are in life, don't tell yourself you can't. Seriously, read Tony's book. It's going to inspire you.
2:21 Appreciate that. And then, hey guys, if you're listening to this, you want that book for free. You can buy it for 19 bucks on Amazon as a hard copy. Get a digital download for free. Get in the description. So, I appreciate that. So, Joe, what about you? Okay, so Joe Gonzalez from LA. I was in law enforcement for 15 years. I got into law enforcement at 20 years old. I got hired. I was working at 21 years old. That's all I've ever known. I grew up in I guess a sort of rough neighborhood. I got a lot of family that they don't obey the law, I guess you could say. So I guess one of the niches I had while working in law enforcement was like I was a gang investigator. I worked with a lot of gang members. Like I got on really good task force. Like I wasn't just a patrol officer and my mission was to basically take guns off the street. I had a life-changing moment. I was involved in what like our local news KTLA 5 what they said was the most dangerous pursuit in Southern California history.
3:08 So, I was involved in like an officer involved shooting and my work just they didn't like where it was going. I didn't like where it was going and I have four kids. I have a 11, a nine, seven, and a six-year-old. And I was like, I do not need this. So, I ended that career. Literally 15 years. That's all I need was back toback doubles work. I mean, just kill myself. So, just Hugh and I mean, we've always been friends. We've known each other for 15, 20 years probably. Kind of just crossed paths and he's like, "Hey, man. I'm doing this real estate thing." I was like, "Dude, let's do it." And I just I'm the type like, "Rip the bandit off. I'm all in." So, I got all in. I started educating myself with multifamily. We've been working together ever since. I think we're doing good. And it's just our dedication. You have to be able to create something that doesn't exist. Why multifamily? As a police officer, there's pension. There's 401k.
3:54 As a state city employee, there's 401ks. There's a safe alternative stuff. Why multifamily? Like, what about that spoke to you guys? At first, it was one of your videos when you said, "Why do you want to wait until you're 65 and enjoy your life?" At that point, you're not going to be able to enjoy your life. You're going to be limited to many things. And I was thinking about my job. I was like, "Well, we do a lot of physical labor." And I'm not lying. Everyone that retires out of DWP, they're limping. I mean, they're barely walking. They're complaining about back pains. And then they come back, a lot of them have oxygen tanks. They're walking with oxygen. I remember one story one of the guys did tell me. He's like, "Hey, bro. Like, when I retire, I wanted to go snowboarding. That was my dream. And now I can't because of my back. And I kind of looked at him like, "Okay, this is not the life that I want." I just kept on thinking like, "No, I'm not going to be here. I'm not going to be here. I know I'm meant to do more.
4:40 Multifamily the way you explained it doing the birth strategy, taking the money out, talking about the velocity of money. If I go all in on this, it's going to be worth it. I could sacrifice two to three years living below my means, not having no car payments. I even took a helock out of my house because I knew it's worth it. I sold my truck to pay off my debt." And that's what a lot of people don't know and they should know that there's sacrifice to it. And that's what so many people who listen to this and then watch this, they get caught up cuz they're like, "Well, I work a job. I'm busy. I have kids. I have a family. I'm busy." Here are two prime examples. You have four children. You work like crazy hours. You know what I mean? You guys are sacrificing to get ahead. That's where it all is. And I love that you didn't just settle for the traditional thing. And something you mentioned too, which is so true, is like as human beings, we are depreciating assets. Like our bodies are depreciating assets.
5:28 As you get older, your body doesn't move as well. And like you said, especially in something like law enforcement, something like a physical labor, even something like me. I come from the fitness industry. No one wants to work with an 80-year-old dietitian. You need to maximize your earned income, which you guys do, and put it into an asset that appreciates and works for you when you don't have to work. Now that you guys own 12 units, how nice is it on a weekend when you're hanging out with the family or chilling being like, "Our assets out there working for us. You have 12 people who go to work every day to pay you guys. I mean, does that feel good? It feels amazing and it's just putting in the work. It's crazy now. Like my life has like it's been changing for the good. My home is a liability. Now I have an asset that's producing money for me. So you guys got the 12 unit that you closed on. Congrats. I was like, Joe, when's the next deal? Yesterday. But that's how we are too, man.
6:14 Because like what we say the congrats comes when you refinance and you get that money out. And that's what most people don't understand. They're like, oh, congrats you bought a deal. Cool. But you got to go run the play now. So you guys didn't settle. You didn't stop there. A month later under contract on 11 units. Just walk me through that like thought process. It wasn't like, oh no, we already have one. Let's just slow down. Like you guys were like, just bring it. Talk to me about that. Our goal was we didn't want to treat this like as a side business, a side income. Like we're all in. And our goals A to Z. We're going to get to Z and then redo it again as fast as we can. That was our thing. Like I mean we want a,000 units. We want to sell it and then start again. See if we could beat that timeline. If it takes us 10 years, okay, we'll do it in five. So that's our thing. Not settle. We just wanted to work harder. Don't be scared. Like what's so scary about managing a 12 and a 20? Nothing. So, let's just get the other 20. That was our thinking and we just wanted to keep going.
7:00 Where does that mentality come from? Cuz a lot of people who are listening to this, you guys have confidence to do this. It takes confidence to sign on a deal. It takes confidence to wire over a scary amount of money. Ask us how we know. Where's the confidence come from? And how do they get the confidence? Belief in yourself. And our thing is like great. We will never stop. Either way, if this doesn't work, we're going to figure it out. We're just going to keep going. So, I think that's where the confidence like I've never quit at anything in my life and I'm not going to start now. So, I mean that's something that was built in maybe it was like my parents maybe install that in me. I'm instilling that in my children's and knowledge like he says I'm huge on books. I'm huge on knowledge. People write books. It takes them 20 30 years and I could get that knowledge in an hour 2 three hours a day. And another thing too u coaching invest in coaching. A lot of people want to go doing them by themselves and then they just mess it up.
7:47 If their ego gets in the way, their pride gets in the way thinking I could do it by myself. Don't do it by yourself. Invest in yourself. And that's what you told me too. First, you got to invest in yourself before you go do it. If you could get coaching, get it. It's life-changing. You know how you say like real estate is an infinite return. Coaching is an infinite return. We've said that about with working with our coach who's now your coach, you know, which I love. You pay the fee, but you get the knowledge for a lifetime. That took them 20 or 30 years. You guys today, like I'm like, "Hey, when we bought this deal, here's my mistake. Remember I told you that major mistake that almost cost me a deal with the refinance. We won't share with them cuz that's what you guys get. But you get to profit off of someone else's mistakes and especially in real estate. I mean we're talking million like your guys portfolio will be multi-millions of dollars. We're not talking like a $500 mistake. A mistake could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
8:33 We did another video on the 12 unit. If you guys want to learn about the 12 unit, how Hugo went from 2 to 12. But tell us about this 11 unit. Yeah. So it was on market and then it was off market. Then I saw it back on market. So, I just kept calling the broker. Like I said, he said it was one of 30 the offers, but I just kept calling him. We were on the phone. I'm like, "Change of plans. It's seller finance." Cuz he was like, he's like, "Just put in an offer." And then we were on the phone and he's like, "Well, he would entertain seller financing." So, then we did offer over what the asking price is, but with it being seller financing, you can't pass those up. What's the play with the deal? Why did you guys like the deal? The rents and they're Yeah. Below market rent. 600 bucks. So, being from LA, does it like blow your guys' mind at some of these rents out here in the Midwest? Big time. Yeah. So, they told us five were 550, six were 750.
9:20 And it's like, man, like you're not getting any nothing. You can't even get a car payment. So, that's just that was that was crazy. That was our And then market rents are,000 more. So, it's like, man, that's this is good cash flow. I mean, the interest from our first one to the interest from our second one, that's a big win right there, too. 5.5% rate, like that is so below bank financing. That's why seller financing is such a great opportunity because it's faster and you might have to pay the price they want, but they're giving you the terms. So, it's a trade-off. That's what people don't understand about seller financing. Like, well, they're asking for kind of a lot of money. Yeah, but they're giving you the best terms. So, it's a tradeoff. And we kind of talked you guys are going to get here, improve the property, increase the NOI. You might just let it cash flow for a couple years. What do you think? Go back to a bank, refinance it, and repeat the process. Yeah, go to the bank and repeat the process. This is great too because a lot of people don't understand or don't know about selling financing.
10:08 Instead of focusing the money down, focus on the terms. Negotiate. Yeah, that was big. People are just too focused on the money. Number one thing that kills a deal for most new investors is they focus on the price. And the price is the least important thing. Yes. What is it worth today? But what is it going to be worth 5 years from now? Let me ask you guys this. You manage from out of state. That's a big thing. A lot of people are like, "How am I going to do if I can't see the property? Have you seen your 12 unit yet since you've been here?" Not yet. It makes me money. I don't care what it looks like. Back to that confidence you guys. Is that like a West Coast thing? Like cuz a lot of people struggle with that. Like for someone watching this right now, their markets maybe tapped out. Maybe they're in a Florida, a Texas, a California. They want to invest in the Midwest, but they're like can't see it. How are you guys doing it? Confidence. And I mean, like you said, I guess I would agree too like coaching like our coach says like I am lazy. I really am.
10:54 I'm lazy, but I don't care. I'll pay for knowledge. So, I'm trying to expedite where I get to where I'm going as fast as I can and I'll pay for the knowledge. And I guess most people it's kind of stubborn. They won't pay for the nods. They're kind of scared, timid. Go all in. You know, rip the band. We got the resources right here. Cuz like before this, I know Andrew was going over like, "Hey, here's a 7-day notice. Hey, here's a lease violation. Here's this." You don't have to be next to the property to do that. It's all on the computer management and all that. It's almost better that you're not here because then that way you're not tempted to go there and talk to people. You know, you stay very anonymous, which is like a huge part of it. So, the goal is 1,000 units. Tell me about that. All multifamily, like bigger multifamily, like what's the aspirations? Yeah. Multi family leveling up, making it easier like at 12 50. We're playing Monopoly. That's what's so smart about what you guys did, too. You bought the duplex. You got started.
11:40 But then you were done. You said, "I'm done playing the comparable sales game. I'm done worrying about what the market is. I'm going to go buy a multifamily." I wish we would have done that. We around. You bought a house cuz see I was scared, too. House, a house, a duplex, a forplex, cuz I'm like, "Ah, this is how you have to do it." You guys skipped all that. So, you bought the 12, you bought the 11. It's an NOI game. We talked all about management today. All about operations. Very simple, easy things you guys can do to boost the NOI. And then you can refinance that, pull money out, tax-free money, but then you'll have so much equity in these deals. You'll sell them, not pay tax again. Thank you. 1031 exchange. You go get that red hotel. 23 units is easily going to turn into 48. And what do we say about 48? It pays for what? On-site management. Once you get to on-site management, the game changes.
12:25 Because right now, you guys are being the manager. When you have a building big enough, you don't deal with the problems. The manager deals with the problems. You just deal with the manager. So, it becomes a whole new level. So, I love that. What would you guys say to someone watching this right now who's maybe you guys maybe reading the books, watching the podcast, they're a W2 worker cuz you weren't entrepreneurs to begin with. They want to do this. They feel the same way you felt. Hey, my body is getting beat up. I'm getting tired. I'm not spending time with family. But they're afraid to get started. What do you guys say to that person? I know in the back of your mind, you've always wanted to do something like that. Take the risk. It's worth it. But go all in. When you go all in, you're not going to fail. There's going to be hiccups, mistakes, but that's how we learn. You can't rely on your job. Nowadays, it's just getting scarier and scary like, "Oh, they're taking pensions away. 401ks might go away or something like that.
13:11 Who knows?" You even say like, "You don't even know what you're investing your 401k in." Why do you want to wait till you're 65 when you already know that you have knowledge and you can learn anything, but you just got to put in the work. To someone that's a W2 worker, change your mindset. It all comes down to mindset. Stop putting that limiting belief saying that no, this is not for me, that's for them. There's no such thing as that. We're all human. We're all the same. We all start off the same. Don't be afraid of wealth. Do it. Read all the self-help books. Get better at mindset, affirmations, you know, visualization. I'm huge on that. And then once you do it, you just can't stop. It's the blueprint. Everybody knows it. People just don't do it. Just do it and don't stop. You guys are going to be documenting your journey. Something we talked about today, too. They're at 23 units. They're going to,000 units. The circle gets smaller as you guys grow, but like I said, everyone's rooting for each other when you're all trying to get better and you're trying to grow.
13:57 So, we want people to follow along with you guys. Where should they go? What's your handle? Plug it at Hugo Robas NTF. You'll find me on Instagram and Facebook. Joe 18 Gonzo. Keep it simple, man. Keep it simple. That's where it's going to be documented. And I'm going to keep going and I'm going to keep that. If you guys have enjoyed this episode, go follow Hugo and Joe. They're on an awesome journey. As always, drop some comments. Give us your feedback. Let us know. If you want all of our free resources, the link is in the description. If you want to learn more about the mentorship program that Joe and Hugo are in that got them into their first 23 units, we don't just talk about buying deals, we talk about operating deals because that's what we do. Click the link in the description to learn more about it. That's where Andrew and I get to work with you oneonone to get your first multifamily deal within the first six months. If you guys have any questions for us, always drop in the comments.
14:43 Until next time, we'll talk soon. Thanks.
Topics: 10+ Units, Seller Financing, Out of State, W2 Investors, Mindset
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A clean 14 unit with upside for a first time buyer: Tony adds up fees, bill backs and savings worth about $714,000 of value. - Episode #005: I Can't Believe This Apartment Is Only $1M! Multifamily Deal Analysis
With Tony Stephan · May 11, 2025 · 33 min
An 18 unit collecting a fraction of its market rent: a big problem with big upside, underwritten for a coaching client. - Episode #004: Buying A 9 Unit Apartment With 5.5% Seller Financing
With Keith, mentorship and Stephan Group client, roofing business owner · May 4, 2025 · 32 min
Keith and his wife Angela skipped single family and bought a 9 unit in Clarkston with seller financing at 5.5%. - Episode #003: Buying A 12 Unit Apartment For $1.5M? Multifamily Deal Analysis
With Jerome, coaching client trading single family rentals into multifamily · April 29, 2025 · 54 min
An off market 12 unit with a very light P&L, and the creative ways Tony adds NOI beyond raising rent. - Episode #002: Buying A 12 Unit Apartment For $800K? Multifamily Deal Analysis
With Shelby, coaching client, first multifamily deal search · April 16, 2025 · 57 min
Tony underwrites a 12 unit his coaching client found on LoopNet, line by line, and shows where the value is hiding in the fees. - Episode #001: How This Out of State Investor Bought His First 12 Unit Multifamily Apartment
With Hugo, mentorship and Stephan Group client, W2 worker from Los Angeles · April 13, 2025 · 27 min
Hugo bought a Metro Detroit duplex he has never seen in person, raised the rents in year one, then traded it for a 12 unit.
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