The Tony Stephan Show · Episode #022

Is This Apartment Worth $1.7M? (Multifamily Underwriting)

With Tony Stephan · May 14, 2026 · 17 min

One of Tony's coaching clients, an investor from Europe, sent his underwriting on a Midwest apartment deal priced at $1.7 million. Tony reviews it on screen without revealing the property, and he praises the work.

The deal has an assumable agency loan at about 4.96%, below today's rates. Tony explains the trade off: assuming the seller's balance means a larger down payment and lower leverage. The rent upside is thin. One bedrooms rent around $823 against a market of $850, and two bedrooms around $930 against $1,100. Tony wants at least $100 to $150 of rent growth per unit on a deal this size, which here would be about $63,000 of NOI, roughly $840,000 of value at a 7.5% cap rate.

He walks through ancillary income, suggesting utility bill backs be phased in over three years, flags property taxes that look too low and must be confirmed with the assessor, explains the downside of agency debt escrows and inspections, and shows how the property can support a part time manager and maintenance person. The client's plan refinances in about three years and returns a large part of the equity. Tony's verdict: not his favorite, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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Key takeaways

1. An assumable agency loan can lock in a below market rate, but you bring more money down because you take over the seller's balance.
2. On a deal this size, Tony wants at least $100 to $150 of rent growth per unit. Thin upside means less meat on the bone.
3. Underwrite rent growth conservatively. Ancillary income, such as utility bill backs, is where operators control the outcome.
4. Confirm property taxes with the assessor. Taxes that look too low can change the whole deal.
5. Agency debt escrows taxes, insurance, reserves and immediate repairs found in the property condition assessment.
6. A deal big enough to pay part time staff is what makes out of state ownership work.

Chapters

1. 0:00 Introduction and Loan Review
2. 1:41 Analyzing Income and Expenses
3. 6:28 Insurance, Taxes and Debt
4. 9:49 Management and Deal Viability
5. 13:40 Conclusion

FAQ

What is an assumable loan?

A loan the buyer can take over from the seller. Tony explains that agency loans from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can be assumable, while banks and credit unions usually do not allow it. Here it means a rate near 4.96%, but a higher down payment because the buyer takes over the existing balance.

Why is Tony cautious about this deal?

The rent gap is small: about $823 against $850 on the one bedrooms and about $930 against $1,100 on the two bedrooms. He wants at least $100 to $150 per unit of rent growth on a deal this size. The property taxes also look too low and need to be confirmed with the assessor.

What is the downside of agency debt?

The escrows. Agency lenders escrow taxes, insurance and replacement reserves, and they send an inspector for a property condition assessment. Tony says it produces an immediate repairs list that can include minor items, and you have to escrow for those too.

How can an out of state owner run a property like this?

By buying a deal with enough margin to pay people. Tony points to the client's budget for a part time manager and a part time maintenance person, plus leasing help from a real estate agent. Paying a maintenance person often costs less than calling contractors for every small repair.

Underwriting a $1.7M Deal With an Assumable Loan

A client's underwriting

One of Tony's coaching clients sent over his underwriting on a Midwest apartment deal, and Tony says he did a great job. The client is from Europe, so some notes in the spreadsheet are in another language. Tony cannot disclose details about the property. The price is $1.7 million.

The assumable loan

The deal comes with an assumable loan, which Tony loves. Agency loans, from Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, can often be assumed, while banks and credit unions usually do not allow it. The advantage here is the rate: about 4.96%, while Tony's own Fannie Mae refinance in progress is looking at about 5.6% to 5.7%. The trade off is that you take over the seller's balance, so the down payment is larger and the leverage lower.

Thin rent upside

The rent roll shows mostly one bedroom, one bath units and some two bedrooms. Tony gets asked whether you should only buy two bedrooms; ideally yes, but older buildings rarely have them, and one bedrooms are fine depending on square footage. The one bedrooms rent around $823 against a market of $850, a small gap. The two bedrooms are around $930 against $1,100, which is better.

On a deal this size, Tony wants to see at least $100 to $150 of rent growth per unit. At $150 per unit, that is about $5,250 a month, or $63,000 a year of new NOI. At the client's 7.5% cap rate, that is about $840,000 of value. "Not as much meat on the bone there," he says.

Ancillary income and conservative assumptions

The client added pet fees, late fees, application fees, laundry and a utility bill back plan. Tony would ask why there are pet fees if there are no pets, and he would verify the laundry income. He suggests phasing the utility bill back over three years instead of two. Renters insurance commissions are another small source of income.

He also warns about rent growth assumptions. Investors who underwrote 10% to 15% yearly growth during COVID are now disappointed. Tony underwrote about 2% even in 2021 and 2022. "These spreadsheet warriors, they're not operators," he says. Operations is where you control the result.

Expenses

Insurance looks high and needs multiple quotes. Property taxes look low and may be an error; they will not go down after a sale, so they must be confirmed with the assessor, and Tony shows how a correction reduces the value and the cash out. He expects 50% of residents to turn over after a takeover, uses about $500 a unit for repairs and maintenance, and always includes lawn and snow. Reserves are $250 a unit at any lender.

Tony shares the downside of agency debt from his own loans: escrows. Agency lenders escrow taxes, insurance and reserves, and they send an inspector for a property condition assessment, who produces an immediate repairs list that you must also escrow for. He says they will flag everything possible.

Paying people is the plan

This is why Tony likes bigger properties: the budget supports a part time manager and a part time maintenance person. That is how out of state owners succeed. You do not buy a deal so thin that you have to do the leasing yourself from New Jersey. You hire a young real estate agent who wants to lease units, and a maintenance person on payroll who is cheaper than a contractor's minimum charge for a leaky faucet. He would also raise the marketing budget during the takeover.

The verdict

The client's plan refinances in about three years at a value around $2.3 million, with a new loan that pays off the assumed balance and returns a large part of the equity, plus a sizable tax write off from cost segregation. Tony likes that, but he would push his client on the story: why is the seller selling, and why does he like it? "I don't love the deal, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder." And he repeats a point he makes often: "This is not a no money down game."

Transcript

0:00 Okay, multifamily underwriting here. This is one of my clients deals that they sent over. He did a freaking great job. So, I'm going to share my screen and let's take a look. Bam. Okay, lovely. So, here is my deal analyzer that I use, all my clients use. It is truly the most simple thing. Now, he's put some notes in here. He's from Europe, so that's not English and I don't know what those notes say. So, that's even better. So, obviously I can't disclose anything about the deal cuz it's proprietary, but we're looking at 35 units, 1.7 million. He's looking at an assumable loan, which I love. So, an assumable loan means you can assume the loan.

0:47 It's typically a government loan that can do that. Banks, credit unions don't allow you to do that because banks and credit unions highly look at the borrower. Agency looks at the borrower, definitely, but agency loans are assumable. Agency meaning Freddie and Fannie Mae. Freddie, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. I've done Fannie Mae loans. I've never done a Freddie Mac loan. Problem with assuming is, as you see, it's a higher down payment, lower leverage cuz you're assuming the balance of the former owner. The advantageous side of it is he would be getting a better than market rate interest rate. 4.9% 4.96% today. We're in the middle of a Fannie Mae refinance right now.

1:33 We're looking at 5.6, 5.7 cuz the US Treasuries have just been moving up. So, let's take a look at this. As always, we have income on top less expenses equals NOI. Now, I'm not going to literally look at this. This is the current he downloaded this, so my cells got messed up a little bit. But if the if he had it just via Google Sheets here, this wouldn't have been messed up. But let's look at he's getting 352 bucks 352,000 in rent. Let's look at our rent roll analyzer now. Not tons of rent growth here. There's 31 bed one baths, five two bed one baths. Ideally, I get this question a lot. Well, hey Tony, shouldn't you want all two bed one baths? Yeah, but it's harder to find that especially in these older buildings, right?

2:22 So, one bed one baths aren't bad depending on the square footage size, right? Which we don't know right now, so that's okay. They're renting at 823 bucks 850 bucks market rent. That's not a big delta. So, that's one of my concerns, okay? Two bed one baths 930 931 1,100. That's a little better. Ideally, on a deal this size, I want to be able to see at least 100 150 bucks in rent growth, right? If you follow my content, you know I always say it's number of units. So, look at this. Equals 35. So, we have 35 units, right? Multiply Let's see if we can get 150 dollars of rent growth. That's 5,250 dollars of NOI per month. Well, there's 12 months. 63,000 dollars of 63,000 of new NOI.

3:11 He's using a 7 and 1/2 cap rate. I would agree with that. Divided by.075. You can make 840,000 dollars. You know, with this, not as much. There's not as much meat on the bone there. But let's continue to look. So, pet fees. So, this is one thing I would ask him about when we have our coaching call is why do you have pet fees here if there's no pets? So, that's an interesting thing. Late fees, good. Application fees, good. Utility bill back, there's something we're very big on is what's called rubs, ratio utility bill back system. We start taking the utility bills, dividing them up, using our CRMs, and starting to bill them back. This is where if there is good ancillary This is what's called ancillary income.

4:02 All of this is ancillary income, other sources of income beyond rent growth. You can't push rent growth every single year. It's all depending on the economy and inflation, all of those things. Rent doesn't go up every year. It goes up significantly over time. But every year we're not like, "Hey, rents are going to go up 5, 7, 8, 10% every year." The people who underwrote super aggressively in the years when rent was going up 10, 15% every year in COVID, 2020, 2021, well now it's 2026 and a lot of people are complaining that rent growth has slowed. We forecasted very like when I was buying deals in 2021, 2022, I was underwriting like 2% rent growth.

4:48 So, I don't have any issues cuz I always underwrote very conservatively. These spreadsheet warriors, as we call them, they're spreadsheet warriors, they're not operators. I'll be honest, I'm not the best spreadsheet person. This tool is the simplest I could have made it, right? If I could make it even simpler, I would, and maybe I will over time. I know how to take a spreadsheet and turn it into real-world results via operations. That's where the money's made. So, I always underwrite very conservatively on my rent growth. What did he use? 5% inflation. Maybe try to use a little bit less if you're me. Where we know we can operate is this ancillary income. So, he's billing back utilities, half in year one, full amount in year two. Not bad.

5:34 This is a significant amount, so I would probably split it up. I would say maybe we'll do a third in year one, a third in year two, a full billback by three full years of ownership. I think that's pretty fair. I think that's pretty achievable. Laundry income, good. Well, they don't have laundry income, so I would want to just verify this with my client of like, "Hey, maybe they do have laundry income on site. I don't know." miscellaneous, fine. Renters insurance commission, fine. You can make commissions on renters insurance for clients or tenants who don't have renters insurance. Cuz you always want your tenants have renters insurance because it protects them and it protects you. So, it's like a no-brainer. I we were looking at renting a house for a period of time.

6:20 Like a short more of a mid-term rental, I guess, like 3 months. And they're like, "You need to have renters insurance." It's like a no-brainer, right? So, insurance is pretty darn high. I would definitely want to get that quoted out. We always get multiple quotes on insurance, right? Property taxes are low. So, this would be something I would definitely talk to my client about of like, "Dude, they're at 28,000." So, this might be an error. That's okay. That's why we teach and that's why we coach. So, we just go over that and cuz they're not going to go down. That's for sure. They're not going to go down. Legal collections, good. When you take over a building and you start making rent income growth, there's going to be a turnover. We always tell our clients expect 50% turnover.

7:08 So, if you have 35 units, expect 18 to leave. Just is what it is. It's like tried and true. 500 bucks a unit for repairs and maintenance. This would be confirmed during due diligence. That's just the standard I use when you're underwriting. If it's like really low, I would use 500 bucks a month. If it was higher than that, I would go off of what they have. Depreciation CapEx maintenance. So, he put CapEx in here, totally fine to do. Utilities, I mean, these are high. Wow. That is high. So, great area of opportunity. Lawn and snow. Pool. Okay, there's obviously no pool. Good. Lawn and snow. Good. Sometimes I'll see people just delete out lawn and snow. It's like, "Dude, what do you What do you What do you think?" You can't delete that out. So, always keep that there. This all looks about right.

7:55 So, also too, I'm going through with my students, he graciously allowed me to use this as a YouTube video because he did a great job with this, right? What I'm going through, I'm mostly helping confirm their assumptions. They're like, "Well, hey, what is average for a lawn and snow? What is average for repairs and maintenance?" So, I look at that, you know. Reserve, we always underwrite to a $250 per unit replacement reserve at any bank, any credit union, absolutely agency debt is going to underwrite to that. Agency debt will actually escrow reserves for you. Okay, so a lot of people don't know this. Agency debt, there's some goods and some bads with it, right? From the guy who has agency and credit union, I've got credit unions, I've got one bank, and I've got two agency loans. The problem with the agency or the downfall of agency is the escrows.

8:44 They will escrow for taxes, they will escrow for insurance, they will escrow for replacement reserves, which is like to me, I don't mind it. It's the PCA, the property condition assessment. When they come out, it's government money. It's like an FHA loan, okay? Or a VA loan. They send out someone to protect that government money. So, they're going to go inspect the property, and they will ding you for every nook and cranny that is not good. Ask me how I know. And they will come up with called what's called an immediate required repairs list, and then they will make you escrow all those immediate repairs plus your monthly escrow reserves. So, that's where the escrows can get really high. Now, you might be like, "Well, Tony, if they're immediate repairs, isn't that a good thing?" Yeah, they're not They're not things you would definitely have to do.

9:37 I'm talking silly stuff. Like they will hit you for everything humanly possible. So, that's the downside of agency debt, right? Property management, see that's why I like bigger properties. Look, he could he could support a part-time manager with $24,000. I mean, you can you can definitely go get someone part-time for 24 grand to you know, pay attention to the property. He also did payroll, maintenance, and grounds, which I love, too. So, this is definitely part-time leasing, management. Like you just need someone to help lease these units, that's it. And so, with people, too, they always ask, "How do How do you help people manage out of state?" This is how. We buy good deals that have opportunity to pay people, right? You don't buy a deal where the margins are so razor thin, you can't pay anybody.

10:25 You're like, "Well, I'll do the leasing myself." You will from New Jersey? You're going to do the leasing for a property in the Midwest? That's silly. You should just pay a leasing person, a real estate agent. There's no shortage of I hate to say it, broke real estate agents who need money, who would love to lease properties. Love to lease nice apartment units. They do they make more leasing than they do selling cuz they can't sell. It's the fact of the matter. I think there's a statistic 95% of real estate agents don't make a sale in a year. So, you're not looking for the You're not looking for the Ryan Serhants and the Andrea Steffens, my wife. You're looking for the 25-year-old, 23-year-old, 18-year-old who's like, "I'm starving. I would love to lease your apartments for you." That's how we help people when we say build their team.

11:13 That's how we do we build their team. Payroll maintenance, I would love this. You have a part-time maintenance person. Something we did early on, something we do with our clients all the time. We help them like create that, establish that, build that out. They're taking care of your property. If you can have someone on your payroll, which is this, payroll, doing repairs and maintenance, you will make you will save money cuz you might be like, "Well, Tony, that's a $24,000 commitment." Yeah, go good luck calling a handyman or a contractor every time there's a leaky faucet. They will kill you. They'll be like, "Dude, my minimum bill rate is 500 bucks." You're like, "Dude, you turned three screws. It this was literally like $30 worth of work." They'll bill you for 500 bucks. That's why I love payroll.

11:59 That's why we say, you know, if you can buy a 35-unit deal, it's a great opportunity. Marketing, I would probably bump this up a little bit, at least 300 bucks a month for apartments.com when you're taking over a building. You got to market the asset. Turnover costs, good. So, would you do this deal? 1.7 million. 7 and 1/2 cap. I would maybe bump this up. Let's hope this adjust. Because this is typically not what, like I said, our spreadsheet lives in Google Sheets. So, that's why all this is a little wonky right here. But, it's all good for the example. This did adjust, good. 2.43 million. He did 2. So, okay, appraisal in 3 years, which is what I typically tell my clients, expect to run the BRRR method, buy it right, improve it, rent it up, refinance it so you can repeat within 2 to 3 years.

12:56 Unless interest rates come screeching down, but if interest rates come screeching down, there might be some economic issues, right? So, I don't know. 3 years, he used 2.315. His old loan would be 1.389. No, I'm sorry. His new loan would be 1.389. That's right, cuz his old loan's 973. That's what I was looking at. I'm like, that can't be right because you're assuming 973,000. Good, so he's assuming it. Looks like he's doing interest only if he's not paying the loan out. Cash out 416,000 out of his 727,000. What would you think? Would you do this deal? I would say this is not bad cuz he's also going to take a massive tax write-off at 1.7 million.

13:47 So, he's going to get probably like probably not 700 grand, maybe like 400 500 grand as a tax write-off, which is definitely part of your returns. So, that's why we say for high-income earners it's like a no-brainer. Definitely part of your returns. And then you can pull out 416,000 tax-free. And now you only you're only at 60% leverage, which is great. There's definitely going to be tons of cash flow there. I like the deal. There are some things we need to clean up like this tax bill is one of them. So, we have to adjust this. I would come in bomb times This all has to be affirmed with the assessor. So, see that hurts valuation. This has to be confirmed with the assessor though. So, we'll see that. That reduces cash out to 28%. I don't I'll be honest, I don't love the deal, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

14:37 I would love it if it was a little bit less. But, look at this price per door, dude. God dang, you're like stealing it. You can't even get a car for 42 grand anymore. So, I think there's some upside. Has to love the opportunity. Has to love the deal. I would also challenge my student, what's the story here? My client here, what's the story of the deal? Why are they selling it? Why are they getting out? Why is it a Why do you like it? What have they gone through operationally? Seems to be not a whole lot of meat on the bone. If there was like $200 rent growth on the bone, we would have you know, of course it's like a no-brainer, but what is that? It's always a But, we always whenever we work with a client, it's always about their goals, right? And their opportunities, right? So, and we always say, "What's the story of the deal? Why did you like the deal?" Right?

15:24 That's very important. So, let me know. Put it in the comment section. Would you do this deal? What Yes or no? Like I said, I can't say where the deal's at, any of that. It's here in the Midwest, but great underwriting by my client. Couple little things to clean up. But, that's what I love to see is we get them so good, then I can just help them find me tweak it and find the fine-tooth analysis it, right? Just dial it in. If you want to learn more about this, you can grab this deal analyzer spreadsheet. It's one of the links in the description of this video. Put in the code when you go to check out investor. You can get it for 50% off. It's normally 29 bucks. It's my gift to you for being a loyal subscriber here on my YouTube channel. If you want to learn how to do this, you can go watch there's a free training or there's a trick not free. You pay for the deal analyzer.

16:10 I give you the deal analyzer. I also give you a tutorial video that I shot for my students. So, I give that to you. But, if you're like, "Tony, I want to get nitty-gritty like this on a Zoom call with you. I want to walk through this. I want to learn." Dude, he didn't learn this watching YouTube videos. He learned this by paying for coaching and getting a real-life feedback on his underwriting to get him this good. Click the link in the description, apply for the mentorship program. Tell me about your goals. Tell me what you're looking for. I don't take on a lot of clients. I just take on the right client. So, if you're really looking to do this, you've got money. This is not a no-money-down game. Look, he's got to bring 527,000. A little bit more cuz it was 1.7 million, but he's got to bring money to the table. So, if you've got a couple hundred grand, and you're like, "Tony, I want to learn how to invest, and I want to just work with somebody who's really living this, breathing this, doing this, and I want to shortcut my way to avoid learning mistakes, avoid silly mistakes." You can't make mistakes with this, ladies and gentlemen.

17:03 This will cost you big time, right? Apply for the mentorship program, and we'll see if it's a good fit. As always, if you enjoyed the video, let me know. Put in the comment section. What would you do? Would you do this deal? Yes or no? Would you pay 1.7 million for 35 units? Put in the comment section. Want to hear from you. As always, thank you so much. We'll talk soon. Thanks.

Topics: Deal Review, Underwriting, 10+ Units, Out of State

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